Cingles Info

Hi John,
Nice to meet you! Welcome to the group!!! Dana
ostra17 wrote:Hello All,
My name is John, or Johnny O. I have hep c--discovered in April.
No tx yet. Biopsy is forthcoming. I am single, 51, 5' 7", 170 lb,
work as a golf professional(mainly teaching), and believe in the
words "live with passion" in anything I do.
Having finalized divorce in May and discovering hep c in April,
forming relationships has been awkward to say the least. But, like
you, I carry on and then found this forum and liked the sound of it.
I hope to visit with you soon.
:) John
p.s. I will try to find a way to send a picture of me here.

http://www.link4u.com/littledidsheknow.htm
Peace and Love,
Pam
Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you. -- Missy
Dizick

Hello All,
My name is John, or Johnny O. I have hep c--discovered in April.
No tx yet. Biopsy is forthcoming. I am single, 51, 5' 7", 170 lb,
work as a golf professional(mainly teaching), and believe in the
words "live with passion" in anything I do.
Having finalized divorce in May and discovering hep c in April,
forming relationships has been awkward to say the least. But, like
you, I carry on and then found this forum and liked the sound of it.
I hope to visit with you soon.
:) John
p.s. I will try to find a way to send a picture of me here.

Eric,
Congrats, and just wanted to let you know that I will be thinking of you and
praying for you to have a speedy recovery - keep us posted...
Love, Hugs, and Prayers
Lisa Marie

The Names - by US Poet Laureate Billy Collins
(In remembrance of the victims of 9/11)
The Names
By BILLY COLLINS
esterday, I lay awake in the palm of the night.
A fine rain stole in, unhelped by any breeze,
And when I saw the silver glaze on the windows,
I started with A, with Ackerman, as it happened,
Then Baxter and Calabro,
Davis and Eberling, names falling into place
As droplets fell through the dark.
Names printed on the ceiling of the night.
Names slipping around a watery bend.
Twenty-six willows on the banks of a stream.
In the morning, I walked out barefoot
Among thousands of flowers
Heavy with dew like the eyes of tears,
And each had a name â
Fiori inscribed on a yellow petal
Then Gonzalez and Han, Ishikawa and Jenkins.
Names written in the air
And stitched into the cloth of the day.
A name under a photograph taped to a mailbox.
Monogram on a torn shirt,
I see you spelled out on storefront windows
And on the bright unfurled awnings of this city.
I say the syllables as I turn a corner â
Kelly and Lee,
Medina, Nardella, and O'Connor.
When I peer into the woods,
I see a thick tangle where letters are hidden
As in a puzzle concocted for children.
Parker and Quigley in the twigs of an ash,
Rizzo, Schubert, Torres, and Upton,
Secrets in the boughs of an ancient maple.
Names written in the pale sky.
Names rising in the updraft amid buildings.
Names silent in stone
Or cried out behind a door.
Names blown over the earth and out to sea.
In the evening â weakening light, the last swallows.
A boy on a lake lifts his oars.
A woman by a window puts a match to a candle,
And the names are outlined on the rose clouds â
Vanacore and Wallace,
(let X stand, if it can, for the ones unfound)
Then Young and Ziminsky, the final jolt of Z.
Names etched on the head of a pin.
One name spanning a bridge, another undergoing a tunnel.
A blue name needled into the skin.
Names of citizens, workers, mothers and fathers,
The bright-eyed daughter, the quick son.
Alphabet of names in green rows in a field.
Names in the small tracks of birds.
Names lifted from a hat
Or balanced on the tip of the tongue.
Names wheeled into the dim warehouse of memory.
So many names, there is barely room on the walls of the heart.
Billy Collins is poet laureate of the United States. This poem was read before
Congress at its joint session in New York City.

Mount Sinai Transplant Chief Quits
U.S. National - AP
Mount Sinai Transplant Chief Quits
Sat Sep 7,10:00 AM ET
NEW YORK (AP)_ The director of Mount Sinai hospital's suspended live donor
liver transplant program has stepped down, a week after the program was
fined
for 41 patient care violations, the hospital said.
Dr. Charles Miller will continue to work for Mount Sinai and perform
transplants, the hospital said. Dr. Kenneth Berns, the hospital's CEO, said
the restructuring of the program "is one phase in Mount Sinai's ongoing
efforts to ensure the highest quality of care for its patients." The program
has been under investigation by the state health department since a
57-year-old donor, Michael Hurewitz, died a few days after surgery in
January. In March, the state said Hurewitz had received "woefully
inadequate"
post-surgical care. Investigators found a number of post-surgical
violations, including a first-year resident overseeing 34 patients at once.
The program was suspended, and the hospital was told to make the unit safer.
Last week, State Health Commissioner Dr. Antonia Novello announced that the
unit's suspension would be extended, and the hospital was fined $66,000 for
the violations. The hospital has said that most of the problems identified
by the state occurred before 2002 and have been corrected. Miller, who
performed the
first liver transplant in the state 14 years ago, will be replaced by Dr.
Jonathan Bromberg, who currently heads the kidney and pancreas transplant
program at the hospital, the hospital said.
On the Net:

1:00PM 2002.09.05 (GMT+1)
GenOdyssee Announces Positive Results of Proprietary Interferon-alpha
Variants for the Treatment of Hepatitis C and Cancer
- In Preclinical Disease Models Variants Demonstrate Increased Efficacy
Compared to Those Currently Available on the Market -
Paris, France, September 5, 2002 - GenOdyssee S.A., a
biotherapeutics company specializing in discovering and developing drugs
from functional genomics, today announced preclinical results for its
proprietary interferon (IFN) alpha variants for the treatment of hepatitis C
(HCV) and cancer. In the studies conducted by independent French
laboratories, GenOdyssee's variants demonstrated up to one hundred times
greater efficacy compared to IFN alpha molecules currently on the market.
Professor Michael TOVEY, Director of the Viral Oncology Laboratory at
CNRS Research Institute (French National Center for Scientific Research)
commented, "GenOdyssee's interferons display excellent toxicity profiles and
are much more specific and active than interferons 2a and 2b that are
currently on the market for HCV and cancer. Such a significant improvement
could herald a major advancement in patient treatment for both conditions.
Undoubtedly, GenOdyssee's unique approach has significantly contributed to
our understanding of the underlying mechanisms behind interferon activity,
which are currently not well documented."
The studies compared GenOdyssee's nine IFN alpha variants to the
currently marketed IFN alpha 2a and 2b variants in viral infectious disease
models for HCV and immunotherapy models for cancer. Certain IFN alpha
variants demonstrated up to one hundred times greater antiviral,
immunomodulatory and antiproliferative activities than IFN alpha 2a and 2b.
Other variants exhibited differential activities, for example, having
greater antiproliferative but reduced antiviral and immunomodulatory
properties. Initial in vivo toxicology studies reveal few side effects and
suggest the company's IFN alpha variants are better tolerated than those
currently on the market. Hence, these variants could provide a more
specific and efficient therapeutic, with reduced adverse side effects,
significantly increasing treatment efficacy. The company believes that the
most potent IFN immunostimulating and antiproliferative variants will enable
the development of novel immunotherapy treatments for common forms of
cancer, including lung, breast and prostate.
"Genodyssee's variants could act as a stand-alone cancer therapy or
act as an adjunct to therapeutic vaccines, providing greater efficacy than
currently available treatments; they make promising candidates for the
treatment of cancer and HCV," commented Professor Hervé FRIDMAN, from the
Paris Pierre & Marie Curie Medical School and Director of INSERM (French
institute for Health and Medical research) unit 255. Professor Patrick
MAUREL, director of INSERM unit 128, who coordinated the in-vitro
preclinical studies on hepatocyte culture, confirmed that "GenOdyssee's
variants, showing unprecedented activity on human hepatocyte HCV infection,
make very promising candidates to significantly improve HCV treatment."
"With these promising results in hand, GenOdyssee now has a proof of
concept for our innovative approach to drug discovery and development. By
combining our expertise in genetic variability with our understanding of
proteins, we hope to be able to select naturally occurring variants of
existing therapeutic proteins which demonstrate a higher therapeutic index
and fewer side effects," said Dr Jean-Louis Escary, GenOdyssee's Founder,
President & Chief Executive Officer. "The exciting results from the studies
of our IFN alpha variants should enable GenOdyssee to start clinical
development of the most promising variants in both hepatitis C and cancer in
2003. The HCV market is currently valued at more than $2 billion, with ten
percent annual growth, and the cancer therapeutic vaccines and direct
immunotherapy markets are estimated at several hundred million US dollars.
Hence, given the poor efficacy and high toxicity of current treatments, our
proprietary IFN alpha variants represent exceptional commercial
opportunities."
About GenOdyssee S.A.
GenOdyssee S.A. is a French biotherapeutics company founded in October
1999. The company pursues a dual business model: if offers genetic analysis
services through its division GenOdyssee Genetics and aims to develop its
own therapeutics through its division GenOdyssee Pharmaceuticals. GenOdyssee
Genetics has developed a fully integrated high throughput (HT) screening
platform that provides a unique set of post-genomic services including
genetic polymorphism HT detection and identification, HT genotyping,
bioinformatics and functional proteomics. Through its division GenOdyssee
Pharmaceuticals, the company has developed a unique approach to human
genetic variability and applied it to more than 100 genes coding for
therapeutic proteins, to their receptors and to the tyrosine kinases
involved in the corresponding biological pathways.
This program has reaped successful results. As a result of its
original product R&D approach, the company started its second year of
existence with a portfolio of 84 lead candidates. The company has an ongoing
functional proteomics program to study the biological effects of these
molecules, and 32 of them have already shown therapeutic potential. In
2001, GenOdyssee filed 30 patent applications and launched preclinical
studies with its first ten lead candidates.
Contact
Patrick Molinoz
Public Relations Director
GenOdyssee S.A.
Parc d'Affaires Technopolis -
3, avenue du Canada BP 810 Les Ulis
91974 Courtaboeuf Cedex
France
Tel : +33 1 69 29 80 55
Fax : +33 1 69 29 80 79
E-mail: molinoz@...
Web : www.genodyssee.com
Mary Claire Duch
Account Supervisor
Noonan Russo Presence Euro RSCG
Tel: +1 212 845 4278
Fax: +1 212 696 9180
Email: m.duch@...
Web: www.nrp-euro.com
Douglas Pretsell, Ph.D.
Senior Account Executive
Noonan Russo Presence Euro RSCG
Tel: + 44 20 7726 4452
Fax: + 44 20 7726 4453
Email: d.pretsell@...
Web: www.nrp-euro.com
Notes for Editors
Infectious-disease models used in the studies
Viral infectious-disease models for HCV included a novel in vitro
HCV-infected primary human hepatocyte culture, mice infected with
encephalomyocarditis virus (EMCV), in vitro cell cultures infected with
vesicular stomatitis virus (VSV).
Hepatitis C
180 million people worldwide are infected with Hepatitis C. This
virus is the leading cause of liver cancer worldwide and the tenth leading
cause of death among adults in the United States, accounting for
approximately 25,000 deaths annually. Hepatitis C is currently treated with
a combination therapy of interferon (IFN and Peg IFN a-2a et a-2b) and
Ribavirin. These treatments are not sufficiently effective; they have a
high level of toxicity (causing severe side effects such as flu-like
symptoms, loss of weight, hair loss, fatigue, neuropsychiatric effects,
hemolytic anemia) and a response rate of less than 50%.
Immunotherapy for cancers
Immunomodulatory and antiproliferative cancer models included ex-vivo
human dendritic cell maturation, mice grafted with IFN resistant
erythroleukemia and in vitro Daudi cell cultures. Certain cancers are
sensitive to specific immunotherapy, others respond to monoclonal antibody
therapy (anti CD 20 in lymphoma, anti ERB2 in breast cancer), and some to
non-specific immunotherapy (IL2 or GM-CSF as immunostimulators or
adjuvants). IFN alpha has proven to be a clinically effective drug in
cancer for more than 16 years.
Attachments:
Interferon-alpha variant results
Please click on the link to view the PDF version of the press release.
If you have any questions please contact Noonan Russo Presence on +44 (0)20
7726 4452

I want to say a great big thank you for all the replies I got!! (Wow, more than
my ad!!) LOL Seriously, you guys have given me tones of info, help, hugs and
questions. So I don't miss anyone, I will not name names, but you know who you
are.
One of the questions from many was my liver status. And this is also a question
for me. My last Biopsy was in 98. I do not know how ofter or if they should be
doing another one. It did not have this grade/level thing on it, but from what
I can figure 2/3. My labs did not or never do match my biopsy. My Viral level
has gone up in the years but is still considered low and my ALT/AST very's but
also stays in the low range not matching the biopsy that was done. So Labs are
not a real indicator for me which is hard. (Probably why I keep being sent from
one place to the other) They are only looking at Labs. I am going to ask about
another biopsy. I understand that is the only real indicator or at least
ultrasound/cat scan or something. So thank you for your input and please do not
hold back (as if you are) if you have any other info! The research has just
been great and I still have till Oct. my next appt to decide. Will ask Doc more
?'s. Oh, and one of you asked about waiting on Pegasys. He does not know about
that and thinks that the HepC is worth treating! Great Huh? Thank you all
again!! Hugs, prayers, kisses, and all that good stuff!!!!!!!!! Dana
P.S. Amanda, my daughter is 16 and will be getting her liscense, but there are
other difficulties there. Will talk about that later. Dana

Dana,
this is day 3 for me and a good one. The only problem I am experiencing
today is I cant sleep. Which in a way isn't all that bad since I have spent
many hours snoozing lately. The only thing I can tell you is "mind over
matter ." As you know I am a single Mom of 2 boys who are 10 and 13. I am
all they have. I have to do this for them. I want to make sure I dot miss
any of their life's. I may not always have the perfect house but my kitchen
is always clean, lol. Even if I feel real bad I push myself to do 1 thing.
So far it is working. I work full time and have to work full time my ex
rarely pays support. I swear I am not going to let this damn disease get the
best of me. Even if I have to go through life at a turtles pace I will make
it. And wasn't it the turtle that won the race against that cocky hare, lol.
All I can say is give it a try. If you cant handle it you can stop. And oh
yea someone said drink lots of water.
Debbie
In a message dated 9/6/2002 12:00:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
spiria_spirit@... writes:

Hi All,
First I want to say good luck to Michael today!! Hope your doing well and my
prayers are with you!
Then I have an actual serious question. I know allot of you have been through
different treatments and have different lifesyles so hopefully some of you can
help me with this. I am struggling with a desision to go on this Peg/Intron
treatment. Have already been through 3 diff. treatments that were very
difficult. How do any of you make it all the way through therapy as a single
parent, take care of your house when you can barely do that now without
therapy?? My family is 1500 miles away and most of the people I know work and
have difficulties of there own. I have a teenage daughter who does not drive
yet and can hardly keep up with the daily things that I have to do and go to
school. My last treatment put me in bed for 3 weeks not being able to do or
keep up with anything or even think straight. I had to go off the treatment.
So if any of you out their can help me with this delima as I am sure plenty of
you are going through the same thing, PLEASE let me know?? And a big thank you
to Teri for listening and helping me on the side!! Love, Dana
http://www.hepatitisinnovations.com/pro/pegintron/product_info.html

Hi Trey....... I am sorry that you want to leave the list! If it is because
of too many emails there are other options! You can go and set your
membership to read email at site only and then NO emails will ever come to
you but you can still be a member or you can set it to *digest* that will
send you one large email a day with all the emails in it. You need to go

Ma urges hepatitis B awareness
Bonnie Eslinger, The Examiner
May 6, 2006 9:00 AM (14 hrs ago)
SAN FRANCISCO - Fiona Ma did not learn she had chronic hepatitis B until she
tried to give blood at the age of 22. Now 40, the member of the Board of
Supervisors is hoping her story will encourage other Asian Americans, who are at
greater risk, to get tested for the deadly disease.
While only 3 percent of the nation's population has been diagnosed with chronic
hepatitis B, Asian American and Pacific Islander Americans make up more than
half of these cases, according to the Centers for Disease Control. In San
Francisco, nearly 30 percent of the population is of Asian descent, which means
thousands of residents are likely to be chronic carriers.
"This is an issue near and dear to my heart, because I myself am a hep B
carrier," said Ma, speaking at a press conference called Friday to promote
awareness of the disease among San Francisco's Asian Pacific community.
Ma noted that her brother, who is only two years younger than she, is also a
hepatitis B carrier, but her sister, who is 16 years younger, is not. That's
likely because a hepatitis B vaccine became available in 1982, leading to
routine vaccination of newborns.
Hepatitis B, caused by a virus that attacks the liver, occurs when blood from an
infected person enters the body of a person that is not infected. A mother can
transmit it to her baby during birth. It can also be spread through having sex
with an infected person without using a condom and by sharing needles, among
other means of transmission.
The children of immigrants from areas with high rates of infection, such as
China, are at high risk for contracting the disease. Without vaccination, 90
percent of infants infected at birth develop a long lasting, chronic infection.
Often called the "silent disease" because about 30 percent of those infected
have no signs or symptoms, in the United States, about 1.25 million people have
chronic hepatitis B. Of those infected, 5,000 die from hepatitis B and hepatitis
B-related liver complications each year.
Dr. Mitch Katz, San Francisco's director of public health, called hepatitis B a
"deadly but preventable disease" and encouraged The City's Asian Pacific
community to get tested and vaccinated, if needed.
Currently, all newborns in San Francisco are automatically vaccinated against
hepatitis B. The City also spends approximately $200,000 a year to provide about
8,000 adult hepatitis vaccines to local public health centers and private
nonprofit organizations at no charge.
For information on free or low-cost hepatitis testing and vaccination sites in
San Francisco, call 415-554-2844. Free screenings will also be offered at the
Asian American Heritage Celebration in San Francisco's Sunset District, on May
20.
beslinger@...
http://www.examiner.com/a-100237~Ma_urges_hepatitis_B_awareness.html

---Theres a place in your sighnup info where you can click read at
sight and they dont come to your private e-m.
We dont send them to you -the sight does auto.-
Have fun,I know i did that at first also-
bummer-
Hermit

please remove me from your mailing list..i cannot keep up with the volume of
mail that i am receiving.
thanks,
trey

Kennedy case puts Ambien again under spotlight
By Kim Dixon Fri May 5, 1:57 PM ET
CHICAGO (Reuters) - U.S. Rep. Patrick Kennedy (news, bio, voting record)'s
statement that he used Sanofi-Aventis's sleep drug Ambien, to explain how he
might have been involved in a late-night car crash, has led to renewed attention
on the drug's possible side-effects.
The Rhode Island Democrat had also taken the prescription nausea drug phenergan
before crashing his car into a security barrier in Washington D.C. early
Thursday morning. Nobody was hurt but the incident has intensified questioning
about whether the drug causes side-effects like sleepwalking and binge eating,
and how prevalent they are.
"There is white hot attention on this particular agent, but we need to be
cautious about jumping to conclusions," said Michael Sateia, chief of sleep
medicine at Dartmouth Medical School. "We have no systematic data yet."
Sanofi-Aventis says Ambien, used by millions of people since its introduction in
1993, has lulled patients to sleep for 12 billion nights. It says sleepwalking
is a rare side effect and it stands by the drug's safety.
But researchers at Hennepin County Medical Center in Minnesota have identified
more than two dozen cases of dangerous sleepwalking among people who took
Ambien, and they believe the phenomenon is more common than the company says.
"We are seeing pretty extreme expressions of sleepwalking - like getting into a
car and driving," said Michel Cramer-Bornemann, a researcher at the clinic. "And
when we remove the Ambien, it is resolved."
The data, to be submitted for publication in several months, is still anecdotal.
"But good science starts with observation," he said.
About 30 million people in the United States take sleep medications, according
to the American Academy of Sleep Medicine and Ambien leads the market by far. By
some counts, that is a 50 percent jump in the use of such drugs since the
beginning of the decade.
Serious alleged side-effects are short-term memory loss and cases of patients
involved in road accidents a day after taking the drug who complained they still
felt drugged.
Sanofi has said about 4 percent of people might sleep walk with or without the
drug.
That estimate is a bit high, according to Donna Arand, president of the American
Insomnia Association.
She explained that sleepwalking occurs when a patient's brain goes into the
deepest cycles of sleep and has trouble getting back into the lighter cycles.
"You end up with a sleeping brain and an awake body," she said.
Sateia of Dartmouth suggested that Sanofi reexamine the original trial data it
submitted to regulators when it won approval.

And I thought it was just me...and my convoluted thinking :-)
Love,
Nancy

Bayla make sure he
gets a water pic.
Vickie (former dental assistant)
Bayla do this...Bayla do that...gesh!! Hey Mike B...you coming to GCS for the
Toga Party this weekend?
oh...yes mame on the water pic....gives me something else to pick up while I'm
stocking up at Costco for the PARTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
~Bayla~
SVRnWaiting
Every person is the creation of himself,
the image of his own thinking and believing.

September 2, 2002
West Nile Virus from transplant - CNN
ATLANTA, Georgia (CNN) -- U.S. health authorities are investigating whether
four patients in Florida and Georgia -- including one who has died -- could
have been infected with the West Nile virus through transplanted organs.
The virus previously was considered a mosquito-borne threat only, a
spokesman for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Sunday.
The four patients received organs from a Georgia woman, who was killed early
last month in a car accident. The woman, who donated her heart, kidneys and
liver, had been given several blood transfusions before she died, the CDC
said.
Health officials do not know if the woman was infected with the virus, but
all four patients became ill after receiving her organs.
"Preliminary evidence suggests that these illnesses may be due to West Nile
virus infection," the CDC said.
One Georgia recipient died of encephalitis, and an autopsy found his
evidence "consistent with West Nile or related virus infection," the CDC
said Sunday in a statement.
"The CDC is exploring the possibility that West Nile virus may have been
transmitted through donated organs," CDC spokesman Tom Skinner said.
The CDC planned to test the heart transplant recipient in Miami after
Florida health officials confirmed the man was infected with the virus,
Skinner said.
If the human-to-human transmission is confirmed, it would be the first known
case of its kind. It also would pose a problem for public health
authorities. No Food and Drug Administration-approved test is available to
screen donated organs for the virus.
All previously documented cases of West Nile infection in people are
believed to have come from mosquitoes. Public health officials emphasize
that the virus cannot be transmitted through casual contact with an infected
person.
The West Nile epidemic exploded this summer, three years after it was first
detected in birds, horses and eventually humans in the northeastern United
States.
At least 555 cases have been confirmed across 26 states and the District of
Columbia, according to the CDC, and 28 deaths have been attributed to the
disease.
More than a third of the infections have been in Louisiana, where eight
people have died.
-- CNN Medical News Producer Miriam Falco contributed to this report.

Unfortunately that is a Florida perc nancy! I used to have that too when i
lived down there but Georgia never heard of such a thing and doesn't do it!
:-( So there were more good things in Florida than I was actually aware of
at the time LOL another OH WELL :-(

Am I missing something, but of you don't put down if you are a moan

Nevada launching Web site for Canada drug imports
Fri May 5, 5:43 PM ET
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Over objections by the U.S. Food and Drug
Administration, Nevadans will be able to buy prescription drugs from Canada over
the Internet starting next week, a spokesman for Gov. Kenny Guinn said on
Friday.
"Monday is the anointed day," said Steve George, a spokesman for the Republican
governor, referring to when a state Web site linking consumers to pharmacies in
Canada goes into operation.
Nevada regulators gave the Web site their final blessing on Thursday after
weighing a review of the program by the state attorney general, who had been
skeptical about the measure passed by state lawmakers last year.
Responding to fast-rising drug prices, a number of U.S. states and local
government have urged the federal government to allow imports of prescription
drugs, which often cost less abroad. The U.S. government opposes the imports.
"There will be a caveat on the Web site saying that the federal government views
getting prescriptions filled in Canada with non-FDA-approved drugs as illegal,"
George said.

Dana...Dale Earnhart was a kickass Nascar race car driver..."In Drag" means
dressed in women's clothing...Get it? :-)
Love,
Nancy

I know some of the UF physicians have stated this is the new hope for
people that are none responders.

Now Nancy,
Think about this! It might be better than "The Harley Machete Hepper Shower
Club" ROTFLMAO!!! Dana
Nancy wrote:"Nancy in Living Color"...LOL (Just another advantage of having
that all
that Lysergic Acid Dimethawhatever linger in your body cells the rest of
your unnatural life.) LMAO
Name for our Harley club...how bout "Easy Heppers" (Oh wait...maybe the
wrong connotation association there!)
Hmmmmm "Nevermind"
ROTF
Love Ya Glowbug! :-)
Nancy

Case example- mine: First of all, neither hepatitis, nor any drug
used to treat hepatitis is mentioned in my Part D coverage plan, but
for purposes of discussion let's assume that medicines for treating
hep-c were added later:
I was estimating the costs of treatment when it becomes available to
me, assuming of course that my part D plan would even cover the
medicines, which is unlikely, but: The Part D Bush plan would cover
the first 6 weeks of a 48 week treatment- thereafter I would have to
pay the next $3,500.00 out of some magic pocket that I don't have. I
just have no way to come up with that amount of money. After that
$3,500.00 is paid out of the magic pocket, the expenses each month
would be $150.00 for the rest of the course of treatment. Add to that
a monthly round trip transportation cost to the specialists office
(in another city) for blood tests at $50. per trip, thanks to Bush
illegal and unjustified invasion of Iraq gas prices. That is $200.
per month direct cost to me for the remainder of the treatment.
Now, with a low Social Security Disability income of somewhere around
$628. minus $3,500.00 from somewhere unknown, maybe a UFO, then minus
$200.00 per month that leaves $428.00 per month for rent, utilities,
food, transportation costs, and other sometimes essential expenses.
This does not even include the costs of other necessary medicines.
For example, just 30, 5mg oxycodone tablets per month (which is
inadequate btw) for chronic pain issues, cost $69.00 then there is
anit-inflammatories and recent antibiotics for an infection (toothe
extraction), so monthly costs are already between $100 and $200.
This Part D medical plan is just plain not workable and I am far
worse off than before this Bush mass deception.
I told my neighbor that the new Bush plan, Medicare Part D is a slow
death sentence for millions of people like myself.
The media constantly talks about Seniors, seniors, seniors, and how
great this plan is for them- like if their medication costs are $200
per month or less they have a good deal. The media RARELY focuses on
the disabled and especially those in need of more expensive treatment
medicines, such as for hep-c.
I wanted to write to numerous newspapers and tell them to start
focusing on the really BAD aspects of Plan D, in example disabled
people who have very low fixed disability incomes and need expensive
medicines, they are systematically excluded from the benefit of
receiving costly treatments.
In previous years a number of research studies have always found that
it is less expensive to TREAT hepatitis-c than to pay out the long
term consequences of not treating it, and these studies were done
before the SVR rates were above 50% as they are now, which means that
from a cost standpoint treatment is even more economically
advantageous than not treating.
This whole medicare Part D plan is going to be a disaster. You can
mark my words on that.
I have heard hints to the effect that there are ways to work around
this bad situation but I have yet to see a single case of anyone
being able to work around it. I have in fact only heard about
disabled people who are paying 4 times as much for co-payments and
people who have had to abruptly stop essential life saving treatments
because Part D does not cover them and when they are covered these
disabled persons have no way to come up with the 'Donut Hole' money
and high monthy copays after the Donut Hole payment, so the
treatments have been abruptly discontinued.
In the case of millions of people like myself, unless they have
$3,500.00 cash on hand for the 'donut hole' we will not even be able
to be offerred the treatment in the first place. With no way to pay
the cash portions for it, it just won't be offered.
If there is a way to get around this situation it must be very
obscure, complicated, involve alot of red tape, paperwork and maybe
even lawyers. Most disabled people are not going to be able to jump
through all of the circus hoops and get the needed results. This
plan is a disaster.
That is one aspect of the problem, the other is the fact that the
insurers can remove any drug from their list of covered medicines if
they think it is too costly, and drug companies can raise their
prices at any time they wish. After the deadline of May 15thfor Part
D signups, I think we will see this happen steadily through-out the
coming years.
Has anyone here figured out how to get around this Part D plan? That
is, if the medicines are not covered in the first place and if a
person can get coverage how does one deal with the $3,500.00 'Donut
Hole' and additional high monthly copayments which can run into
hundreds of dallars?
I guess it doesn't matter much to me since treatment meds are not
covered anyway and it is unlikely that the insurer is going to want
to add them to the list.
I am (seriously) beginning to reconsider the possibilty of dying from
hep-c.
Oh well, I'll not think about that and try to enjoy what's left of
my life.
Dennis near Seattle

What BS! Walgreen's...and I think some of the other major pharmacies down
here already give people who have Medicare with no other Rx coverage a
"Medicare Discount" of 10 to 20%...IF you ask for it and show your Medicare
card.
More Bush handjive...making it look like he's REALLY doing something for
"the people"!
(My two freaking cents :-)
Love,
Nancy

Health Notes
West Lake County edition
BLOOD DRIVE | Dyer
LifeSource, Chicagoland's Blood Center and Faith Church will host a blood drive
from 7 a.m. to 1 p.m. Jan. 29 at 100 81st Ave. In honor of January being
National Volunteer Donor Month, everyone who presents to donate will receive a
commemorative lapel pin. Donors must be at least 17 years old, weigh at least
110 pounds and be in good health. Most medications are accepted. Bring photo ID
such as a driver's license, state ID or passport. Walk-ins are welcome but
appointments may be made.
FYI: Call (219) 864-0300 or e-mail faithchurchonline.org.
HEPATITIS C SUPPORT | St. John
Hepatitis C Support Group, for those who have been diagnosed with Hepatitis C or
liver disease and their loved ones and caregivers, meets from 6:30 to 8 p.m.
Thursday at Community Hospital Outpatient Centre, 9660 Wicker Ave. Register for
this free program.
FYI: Call (219) 836-3477 or (866) 836-3477.
http://www.nwitimes.com/articles/2006/01/28/community/healthy_focus/6e3e87180445\
ef5e862570fb00755f3e.txt

If you are reading this and aren't in the chat room with me I want to know
why??? ROFLOL Anyway, this is a reminder I should have sent out yesterday
and didn't....... sorry........ so if you want to chat please join me at
http://forums.delphiforums.com/HepCingles Have a great weekend everyone!!
Peace and Love,
Pam
Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you. -- Missy
Dizick

Thank God for animals debbie :-) I would be lost without my cats. Sadly I
had to put one down June 28th and another isn't doing well. I came here
with four, am down to three, and soon to be two.......... life is sad.......
but it does go on!! Animals are better than people sometimes...... they do
love unconditionally!! take care!
Peace and Love,
Pam
Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you. --
Missy Dizick

Hi there,
I have just joined this site, been looking for a while to chat to
others with hep C...... as I have been struggling with my diagnosis
for the last 10 years

Thanks Pam it has been like a weight lifted off my shoulders. I have plenty
of love around with me with my 2 boys, 2 cats, and my 2 bad ferrets who want
to keep throwing the dirt out of my new plant..but i still love them.
Debbie
In a message dated 8/31/2002 7:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
figment@... writes:

Hi Dennis,
Do you receive ANY Medicare benefits now?
And if so, did you have to wait 24 month's.s before receiving them?
I have been told by everyone there is a two year wait for the benefits of
Medicare.
and...have the pamphlets to to confirm this. Page two, Medicare Soc Sec.
pamphlet#o5-10043, ICN460000printed Sept 2004.
There ARE Donut Holes (mmmmmm......DONUTS......) I'm sure you know this, but
you may call 1-800-633-4227 or www,medicare,gov for for ANY questions but
specifically Publication CMS 10126 addresses Medicare savings programs. Another
thing..I'm confused alot and would screw things up more. There are Special
Enrollment situations (of which I don't fit into) if your are a government
employee (whats up with THAT?) and more....
Personally, I know it's it a lot of BS. When you see so many adds on prime
time TV wanting someones business, they are gonna' make a bundle. They even have
employee's set up with tables at drugstores pushing Aetna, Humana, etc....and
are aggressively seeking our business...if we have Medicare. OH...again did you
have a two year wait to start medicare? AND YOU RECEIVING MEDICARE BENEFITS AND
CAN NOW DO TO THE C AND/OR D mess?
I have Cobra at 305.00 per month, and Humana told me no more PEG/?Interferon
after the first six weeks, Cost to me? 2800,00 per month. I actually feel good
that I can't take treatment, because I get Staph too easy, I would stress myself
out if I thought it might help and didn't make me sick with Staph,(generally 2
to 5 week Hospital stay for me) if it was Just8st money. So as I weird as it
sounds, I'm glad I can't take it.
I haven't even approached any C or D programs because I still have 19 months
to wait for A and B coverage.
If I was 65 or older, I (THINK) it would kick in immediately.
I'm fortunate that I get 1645,00 per month, but that doesn't cut it either. I
will be looking for a roommate or something to help.
I know I haven't helped you much, if any, Sorry but this is all I know.
Two year wait is basically a death sentence to most, and the poor part time
employee at the local drugstore unwittingly becomes the AX MAN for UNCLE SAM, or
The GRIM REAPER , to many of us. It's so wrong and the only reason I can figure
is this is going on, is to make/save money for government and they also benefit
from not having to deal with us anymore.. Whoever handles your program will the
one you may, even distancing more the people from the Government.
Drug companies don't like it, they will sell less drugs.
Dr's don't like it... their patient can't afford the scripts ...OR get sicker
OR die in a two year wait program.
Drugstores sell less drugs
In my opinion, I believe the Gov. did a research regarding profit and loss.
All businesses need this information to see where the money is spent and how
they can efficiently make more, and cut costs.
Well I think the us gov SAW A ???% OF PEOPLE DIE ANYWAY EVEN IF THEY GET THE
DRUGS IN THE FIRST TWO YEARS AFTER BEING APPROVED, and
basically just don't give us drug assistance and we die off and they have
saved billions(?) .I HAVE TRIED TO LOOK AT THIS WITH UN JADED EYES, AND i COME
BACK TO THE SAME PLACE EVERY TIME.
Who else benefits except the Insurance Co. that we are forced to deal with,
and the US Government?
Deliman
Now look what you did... I just used a little energy and being the sugar/carb
freak I am I've morphed into Homer Simpson!!!! mmmmmmmmmmmmmDONUTS!!!
IS there some way around the two year wait? anybody? I don't have Lou Gehrig's
or kidney problems or ever worked for the government. I'm just regular and sick.
Del
.com
Case example- mine: First of all, neither hepatitis, nor any drug
used to treat hepatitis is mentioned in my Part D coverage plan, but
for purposes of discussion let's assume that medicines for treating
hep-c were added later:
I was estimating the costs of treatment when it becomes available to
me, assuming of course that my part D plan would even cover the
medicines, which is unlikely, but: The Part D Bush plan would cover
the first 6 weeks of a 48 week treatment- thereafter I would have to
pay the next $3,500.00 out of some magic pocket that I don't have. I
just have no way to come up with that amount of money. After that
$3,500.00 is paid out of the magic pocket, the expenses each month
would be $150.00 for the rest of the course of treatment. Add to that
a monthly round trip transportation cost to the specialists office
(in another city) for blood tests at $50. per trip, thanks to Bush
illegal and unjustified invasion of Iraq gas prices. That is $200.
per month direct cost to me for the remainder of the treatment.
Now, with a low Social Security Disability income of somewhere around
$628. minus $3,500.00 from somewhere unknown, maybe a UFO, then minus
$200.00 per month that leaves $428.00 per month for rent, utilities,
food, transportation costs, and other sometimes essential expenses.
This does not even include the costs of other necessary medicines.
For example, just 30, 5mg oxycodone tablets per month (which is
inadequate btw) for chronic pain issues, cost $69.00 then there is
anit-inflammatories and recent antibiotics for an infection (toothe
extraction), so monthly costs are already between $100 and $200.
This Part D medical plan is just plain not workable and I am far
worse off than before this Bush mass deception.
I told my neighbor that the new Bush plan, Medicare Part D is a slow
death sentence for millions of people like myself.
The media constantly talks about Seniors, seniors, seniors, and how
great this plan is for them- like if their medication costs are $200
per month or less they have a good deal. The media RARELY focuses on
the disabled and especially those in need of more expensive treatment
medicines, such as for hep-c.
I wanted to write to numerous newspapers and tell them to start
focusing on the really BAD aspects of Plan D, in example disabled
people who have very low fixed disability incomes and need expensive
medicines, they are systematically excluded from the benefit of
receiving costly treatments.
In previous years a number of research studies have always found that
it is less expensive to TREAT hepatitis-c than to pay out the long
term consequences of not treating it, and these studies were done
before the SVR rates were above 50% as they are now, which means that
from a cost standpoint treatment is even more economically
advantageous than not treating.
This whole medicare Part D plan is going to be a disaster. You can
mark my words on that.
I have heard hints to the effect that there are ways to work around
this bad situation but I have yet to see a single case of anyone
being able to work around it. I have in fact only heard about
disabled people who are paying 4 times as much for co-payments and
people who have had to abruptly stop essential life saving treatments
because Part D does not cover them and when they are covered these
disabled persons have no way to come up with the 'Donut Hole' money
and high monthy copays after the Donut Hole payment, so the
treatments have been abruptly discontinued.
In the case of millions of people like myself, unless they have
$3,500.00 cash on hand for the 'donut hole' we will not even be able
to be offerred the treatment in the first place. With no way to pay
the cash portions for it, it just won't be offered.
If there is a way to get around this situation it must be very
obscure, complicated, involve alot of red tape, paperwork and maybe
even lawyers. Most disabled people are not going to be able to jump
through all of the circus hoops and get the needed results. This
plan is a disaster.
That is one aspect of the problem, the other is the fact that the
insurers can remove any drug from their list of covered medicines if
they think it is too costly, and drug companies can raise their
prices at any time they wish. After the deadline of May 15thfor Part
D signups, I think we will see this happen steadily through-out the
coming years.
Has anyone here figured out how to get around this Part D plan? That
is, if the medicines are not covered in the first place and if a
person can get coverage how does one deal with the $3,500.00 'Donut
Hole' and additional high monthly copayments which can run into
hundreds of dallars?
I guess it doesn't matter much to me since treatment meds are not
covered anyway and it is unlikely that the insurer is going to want
to add them to the list.
I am (seriously) beginning to reconsider the possibilty of dying from
hep-c.
Oh well, I'll not think about that and try to enjoy what's left of
my life.
Dennis near Seattle
SPONSORED LINKS
Hepatitis c support Hepatitis c

Okay Pammie,
Got it, now I hope I can figure out how to use it!! LOL
PeachStatePam wrote:Hi dana.......... Mr. Figment is my main man!! :-) He is
my cat that I
have had for 14 years who helped me through treatment. Anyway, thank you
for the well wishes.......... and now can you please go check your other
email addy :-) I am waiting to hear from you so we can add you to PS-Hep
:-) thanks!
Peace and Love,
Pam
Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you. --
Missy Dizick

Hi dana.......... Mr. Figment is my main man!! :-) He is my cat that I
have had for 14 years who helped me through treatment. Anyway, thank you
for the well wishes.......... and now can you please go check your other
email addy :-) I am waiting to hear from you so we can add you to PS-Hep
:-) thanks!
Peace and Love,
Pam
Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you. --
Missy Dizick

Hi.
Has anyone heard of this type of treatment ...Or this company/person?
Larry F, if you are a member of any of these groups, or just kinda' check in
to see what's going on...I mean no disrespect towards you... I just am not not
knowledgeable enough to figure this all out on my own. OK???
Deliman
Note: forwarded message attached.

Just a thought, but from Debbie's earlier e-mail, could be the "Royal Red
Carpet" Debbie, or well from what Michael refers to her, "Kinky?" Tehee Dana
WaitingOnPeg@... wrote:We will have to think of some way maybe I should be
Deb from Novi. Yes, I
have joined hepcinmichigan and look forward to the picnic.
Debbie
n a message dated 8/31/2002 6:26:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
glory614@... writes:

Pam,
I don't know who Mr. Figment is but I am very sorry to hear this. Wishing you
the best!! Dana
PeachStatePam wrote:hey there (((Glo)))....... thanks for the thoughts but
there won't be any
recovery :-( He is in renal failure and my heart is breaking! I have
never lost two this close together. Anyway, life goes on and I am sure that
I will be back smiling soon.......... right now just too numb and too sick
to care about much of anything.........No worries...... I will be back to my
old self soon........ take care and I hope all is well on your end!!
Peace and Love,
Pam
Dogs come when they're called. Cats take a message and get back to you. --
Missy Dizick

Glo,
Now like I have not joined enough sites trying to get to know all these Happy
Heppers here! LOL Now what site is this? HarleyHepperSingles? And do we all
get a Harley there? Sounds like a great place to be.............But just make
sure these Heppers don't put there Harley's in the Tub. Don't know that I could
take that!! Dana
glory614 wrote:We have another site HarleyHepperSingles that we are trying to
get moving. Feel free to jump on. :-) Glow

Good info.
Del
nsolitude <cascades91@...
I posed some questions in an earlier post about Medicare Part D,
treatment for hep-c and how to get around those problems. Originally
I had hoped that someone in this group might have a simple solution
but upon my own investigations of this mess I really don't expect
anyone to have a simple solution. Here is a professional letter
which involves a psychiatric case in Massachusetts.
I can relate to this case because one of my most undesireable
symptoms of hep-c is cognitive impairment, lack of concentration
abilities, poor retention, short term memory loss, etc., coupled with
low stamina, fatigue, chronic pain issues etc. I have about 8 years
of college level education, mostly technical, I excelled in my field
and at one time and I was the President of a small corporation with
lots of technical responsibilities including extensive technical
calculations, writing and negotiating contracts, managing commercial
construction projects, etc. Now I have significant problems just
concentrating on a one page form just to renew my rent contract, in
fact I made a mistake on that form a few weeks ago and this month I
couldn't remember how much my rent is and I shorted them 10 dollars.
Let alone the multiple pages of forms required for every bureaucracy
(forgot how to spell that) for everything else associated with
medical care and disability benefits.
In FACT, I lost ALL of my Social Security Disability back pay which
was well over $10,000.00 simply because I was totally confused by all
of the excessive forms that I was required to. They wanted full Bank
account audits going back for years for three bank accounts, one of
which was not even my account, it was a Trust or escrow account of an
estate that was inherited by the University of Washington who owned
the house I was living in and I was authorized to write checks from
that account to pay contract labor for repairs on the house (since I
was present and living onsite). That account was managed by a
Corporate Attorney who I knew quite well and he had to approve the
checks. I KNEW that me requesting to have an Audit of the Estate's
escrow account to satisfy the sScial Security Administration in my
app for disability would go over like a lead balloon, which is what
happened. Anyhow, I was on treatment at the time and totally
incompetent to deal with all of the forms. I could not even read and
comprehend a full page of the forms, had no help whatsoever so I had
to set them aside. Two months later the deadlkine passed and I lost
over $10,000 in back benefits and was cheated out of about $400 in
my monthly benefits. That is water over the dam. I am getting by
financially but just barely.
Sorry I got off track but the professional letter below reminds me of
this whole situation:
Source:
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/57/5/722-a
Psychiatr Serv 57:722-a-723, May 2006
doi: 10.1176/appi.ps.57.5.722-a
© 2006 American Psychiatric Association
Letters
Medicare Part D and Decompensation
To the Editor:
We recently evaluated a woman in the emergency department who was
disabled by recurrent major depression. One month before her visit,
she became extremely distressed and hopeless when she received a
brochure outlining the Medicare Part D program and became overwhelmed
by the complexity of the possible prescription benefit plans. This
hopelessness led her to abruptly discontinue her ten medications for
depression and cardiac disease, and she attempted suicide by overdose
one week later.
Caring for this patient prompted us to compare the Medicare Part D
prescription plans ourselves. A Medicare Web site (1) listed the 18
companies that offer a total of 44 different plans in Massachusettsa
daunting list. We called the customer service number for each company
to request a Web site that would provide a drug formulary. Two
offices left us on hold indefinitely, two were not open, two provided
us with incorrect Web site information, and two did not have
formularies accessible online at that time. Of the ten companies'
formularies that were online, only one explained the cost of
prescription drugs for Medicaid recipients. We searched the
formularies for the ten medications used by the patient, using
generic and brand names as written in her medication list. Of the
various plans, one offered all ten of her medications on its
formulary; most offered from four to nine of them. In many cases, it
was impossible to know the monthly cost of this list of drugs because
of varying premiums, deductibles, copayments, and limits.
Among patients with mental illness, anticipation of changes in
treatment providers or treatment plans can have a destabilizing
effect. This case demonstrates the potential for psychiatrically and
medically compromised patients to decompensate as they are faced with
a complicated array of coverage options. Given 44 possible plans,
each with relative advantages and disadvantages, covered and
noncovered medications, and varying copayment options, it is
understandable that individuals will experience stress over making
such a decision. This stress is likely to be compounded when such a
decision is made in the context of life-threatening illness,
financial hardship, financial penalties for not choosing a plan in a
timely fashion, and the possibility that a single plan will vary its
formulary over time (2). In addition, considering the difficulty we
faced as we researched the formularies over several hours, we wonder
how physicians will obtain these lists when necessary.
Educating ourselves and our patients and maintaining their optimal
treatment as they enroll in the Medicare Part D program will be an
important and extremely challenging task.
Jennifer M. Park, M.D., Ravi Hariprasad, M.D. and Lawrence T. Park,
M.D.
Footnotes
Dr. Jennifer Park is director of the acute psychiatry service and Dr.
Lawrence Park is director of psychiatric inpatient services at
Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) in Boston. Dr. Hariprasad is a
resident in the MGH and McLean Hospital residency program.
References
State by State Plans: Massachusetts Medicare Prescription Drug Plans.
Washington, DC, Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Available
at
www.medicare.gov/mpdpf/public/include/datasection/results/listplanbyst
ate.asp. Accessed Jan 13, 2006
Elliott RA, Majumdar SR, Gillick MR, et al: Medicaid drug benefit:
benefits and consequences for the poor and the disabled. New England
Journal of Medicine 353:27392741,2005[Free Full Text]
SPONSORED LINKS
Hepatitis c

I posed some questions in an earlier post about Medicare Part D,
treatment for hep-c and how to get around those problems. Originally
I had hoped that someone in this group might have a simple solution
but upon my own investigations of this mess I really don't expect
anyone to have a simple solution. Here is a professional letter
which involves a psychiatric case in Massachusetts.
I can relate to this case because one of my most undesireable
symptoms of hep-c is cognitive impairment, lack of concentration
abilities, poor retention, short term memory loss, etc., coupled with
low stamina, fatigue, chronic pain issues etc. I have about 8 years
of college level education, mostly technical, I excelled in my field
and at one time and I was the President of a small corporation with
lots of technical responsibilities including extensive technical
calculations, writing and negotiating contracts, managing commercial
construction projects, etc. Now I have significant problems just
concentrating on a one page form just to renew my rent contract, in
fact I made a mistake on that form a few weeks ago and this month I
couldn't remember how much my rent is and I shorted them 10 dollars.
Let alone the multiple pages of forms required for every bureaucracy
(forgot how to spell that) for everything else associated with
medical care and disability benefits.
In FACT, I lost ALL of my Social Security Disability back pay which
was well over $10,000.00 simply because I was totally confused by all
of the excessive forms that I was required to. They wanted full Bank
account audits going back for years for three bank accounts, one of
which was not even my account, it was a Trust or escrow account of an
estate that was inherited by the University of Washington who owned
the house I was living in and I was authorized to write checks from
that account to pay contract labor for repairs on the house (since I
was present and living onsite). That account was managed by a
Corporate Attorney who I knew quite well and he had to approve the
checks. I KNEW that me requesting to have an Audit of the Estate's
escrow account to satisfy the sScial Security Administration in my
app for disability would go over like a lead balloon, which is what
happened. Anyhow, I was on treatment at the time and totally
incompetent to deal with all of the forms. I could not even read and
comprehend a full page of the forms, had no help whatsoever so I had
to set them aside. Two months later the deadlkine passed and I lost
over $10,000 in back benefits and was cheated out of about $400 in
my monthly benefits. That is water over the dam. I am getting by
financially but just barely.
Sorry I got off track but the professional letter below reminds me of
this whole situation:
Source:
http://psychservices.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/57/5/722-a
Psychiatr Serv 57:722-a-723, May 2006
doi: 10.1176/appi.ps.57.5.722-a
© 2006 American Psychiatric Association
Letters
Medicare Part D and Decompensation
To the Editor:
We recently evaluated a woman in the emergency department who was
disabled by recurrent major depression. One month before her visit,
she became extremely distressed and hopeless when she received a
brochure outlining the Medicare Part D program and became overwhelmed
by the complexity of the possible prescription benefit plans. This
hopelessness led her to abruptly discontinue her ten medications for
depression and cardiac disease, and she attempted suicide by overdose
one week later.
Caring for this patient prompted us to compare the Medicare Part D
prescription plans ourselves. A Medicare Web site (1) listed the 18
companies that offer a total of 44 different plans in Massachusettsa
daunting list. We called the customer service number for each company
to request a Web site that would provide a drug formulary. Two
offices left us on hold indefinitely, two were not open, two provided
us with incorrect Web site information, and two did not have
formularies accessible online at that time. Of the ten companies'
formularies that were online, only one explained the cost of
prescription drugs for Medicaid recipients. We searched the
formularies for the ten medications used by the patient, using
generic and brand names as written in her medication list. Of the
various plans, one offered all ten of her medications on its
formulary; most offered from four to nine of them. In many cases, it
was impossible to know the monthly cost of this list of drugs because
of varying premiums, deductibles, copayments, and limits.
Among patients with mental illness, anticipation of changes in
treatment providers or treatment plans can have a destabilizing
effect. This case demonstrates the potential for psychiatrically and
medically compromised patients to decompensate as they are faced with
a complicated array of coverage options. Given 44 possible plans,
each with relative advantages and disadvantages, covered and
noncovered medications, and varying copayment options, it is
understandable that individuals will experience stress over making
such a decision. This stress is likely to be compounded when such a
decision is made in the context of life-threatening illness,
financial hardship, financial penalties for not choosing a plan in a
timely fashion, and the possibility that a single plan will vary its
formulary over time (2). In addition, considering the difficulty we
faced as we researched the formularies over several hours, we wonder
how physicians will obtain these lists when necessary.
Educating ourselves and our patients and maintaining their optimal
treatment as they enroll in the Medicare Part D program will be an
important and extremely challenging task.
Jennifer M. Park, M.D., Ravi Hariprasad, M.D. and Lawrence T. Park,
M.D.
Footnotes
Dr. Jennifer Park is director of the acute psychiatry service and Dr.
Lawrence Park is director of psychiatric inpatient services at
Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) in Boston. Dr. Hariprasad is a
resident in the MGH and McLean Hospital residency program.
References
State by State Plans: Massachusetts Medicare Prescription Drug Plans.
Washington, DC, Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Available
at
www.medicare.gov/mpdpf/public/include/datasection/results/listplanbyst
ate.asp. Accessed Jan 13, 2006
Elliott RA, Majumdar SR, Gillick MR, et al: Medicaid drug benefit:
benefits and consequences for the poor and the disabled. New England
Journal of Medicine 353:27392741,2005[Free Full Text]

Nancy,
Michael told me YOU were the one with the MACHETE!! My poor fuzzie head! Wake
up and all confused again. Hope your crash is getting better!! LOL Dana
Nancy wrote:I'M not the one with the Machete! :-)

We will have to think of some way maybe I should be Deb from Novi. Yes, I
have joined hepcinmichigan and look forward to the picnic.
Debbie
n a message dated 8/31/2002 6:26:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
glory614@... writes:

ERIC W,
THANK YOU. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. REALLY.... THANK YOU!
Your post means my message was understood!! I feel great!
I am not a doctor and REALLY didn't know if she was injured or not, BUT TO
ME....it seemed like she was.
I am also not a "morals standard guru," either... but it seems to me that
someone that would not tell a potential partner they have a communicable disease
that can definitely cause death, they too, are mentally injured, ignorant or
very selfish... and need to be helped, just like a physical injury.
I rushed to try and help, uninvited, the same as with the old lady, because to
me it wasn't fair how they were treating people.
The problem with having this, "Man...I gotta' help this person" attitude is it
pisses some people off!! ALOT!! The funny thing is, the ones it PO's, are the
ones that I feel are the wrongdoers.
I'm barred from WalMart, because of my actions, (and in Texas thats socially
unacceptable) haha!.... and everybody got all riled up because of my actions on
this site.
Is it worth it?
The way I feel right now compels me to reply with a Great Big Heartfelt, YES!!
Thank you again,
Deliman
ERIC WINISTORFER <ewinistorfer@...
Hey Del, the reason you stopped and aided this women was because it is in all
of to come to aid of some one that has been injured, most people like you said
would not help. The people who do help especially with an elderly person are
doing the right thing. More people in this world need to help each other when
ever possible instead of ignoring the problem when it concerns injuries. These
large companies only want "not" to be held responsible for things that happen on
their premises due to neglect or lack of responsibility.
It was a good thing Del that you offered your assistance to this women.
Love, Light, and Blessings
Eric

We have another site HarleyHepperSingles that we are trying to get moving. Feel
free to jump on. :-) Glow

We'll have to come up with a way to tell you and Deb from michigan apart. She
just got her computer back and will be hooked up soon. Could get a little
confusing. Have you signed up for hepcinmichigan yet? We don't post much but do
have a hepfest picnic or were you there and my mind wasn't? I never know anymore
Lol Makes life even more fun! Love, Glo

_http://www.neilyoung.com/_ (http://www.neilyoung.com/)

I hear that Mr Figment isn't feeling well. I hope he recovers soon. Poor
thing...him and you. I know how much your kittys mean to you and I know that
they get nothing but the best care and love possible. Now how are you doing?
Love, Glo

Below is an article at the HCV Advocate website which was written at
least back in 2005 and more likely in 2004 before Part D went into
effect. It is NOT written by an HCV Advocate staff member but rather
by a private consultant who 'helps' people with benefits issues- I
doubt it that is free help.
Anyhow, I think this article is out of touch with present day reality
but that's just my opinion.
I have heard that there is some form of additional assistance
available for low income people on Medeicare part D, it is even stated
in the Social Security booklet BUT what it is exactly and how to get
it was left out of the booklet. Up until now I had no idea whatsoever
what additional help was available. This old article states that the
Social Security Administration was sending out letters and
applications for this additional assistance to all elligible persons-
which I am DEFINATELY one. However, I have NEVER received a letter or
application from the Social Security Administration. This reminds me
of the FDA promise to send letters out to all persons who were exposed
to potentially contaminated blood products prior to 1992, which I was
exposed to twice in 1970 and 1971 (received blood products at a
hospital- research showed that up to 10% of those supplies were
contaminated with hep-c) and I NEVER got one of those letters. I
think they abandoned that letter sending project shortly after their
promise.
So, according to the article, not only do I qualify but I can apply
for this additional assistance through the Social Security
Administration. Here I learn this only 8 days before the deadline.
Good thing I thought about this and checked into Hepcingles with
questions. There is also a link in the article where supposedly I can
file my application with SSA online. I haven't checked the link yet
to see if it works, OR if this assistance actually will relate to
treatment for hep-c, and I am very skeptical, but I will post it at
the bottom of the article and also give the URL for the article. Here
it is. I am sure that the graphs will not show up properly on this
page so you may want to read the article from it's source URL:
HERE is the URL that will take you directly to the additional help
applications page. I have not gone over it yet so I don't know any
details or how relevent it is. I'll get back to this later:
http://www.socialsecurity.gov/prescriptionhelp/
Here is the HCV Advocate source for the original article below:
http://www.hcvadvocate.org/hepatitis/hepC/Medicare_Drug_Plan_1.htm
Medicare Part D The Prescription Drug Plan Additional Help for Low
Income Beneficiaries
By Jacques Chambers
(click here to download pdf)
For the first time since its inception in 1965, Medicare is preparing
to expand its coverage to include prescription drugs. When Medicare
first started, prescription costs made up barely 8% of all the dollars
spent on healthcare. As is obvious to anyone dealing with virtually
any type of medical problem, prescription medications now take a far
larger piece of healthcare dollars today. Medications can run
hundreds, even thousands of dollars per month.
As part of the Medicare Modernization Act, signed into law in 2003,
voluntary prescription drug coverage will soon become available to all
who are or become eligible for Medicare. Private prescription
providers and insurance companies are developing plans to offer the
coverage. Eligible individuals will be able to choose from several
different plans from their prescription carrier.
Some important dates to be aware of:
Now Part D drug coverage is not designed to cover 100% of all
prescriptions so additional assi stan ce will be provided to persons
with low income. Letters are currently being sent from Social Security
to all who may become eligible for additional financial assi stan ce,
giving people the chance to apply for the additional assi stan ce.
NOTE : Applying for low income assi stan ce is a separate application
process from enrolling in Part D itself which doesn't begin until
November 15, 2005 .
October 15, 2005 Medicare will open a website that will provide assi
stan ce to beneficiaries in choosing the right prescription plan for
their needs.
November 15, 2005 Open enrollment begins when eligible persons may
enroll in Part D coverage.
January 1, 2006 Coverage under Medicare - Part D becomes effective.
May 15, 2006 Last day of Open Enrollment for Part D coverage. Late
enrollees will have to wait until the first of next year and may incur
a 10% surcharge for each year not enrolled.
While the program affects everyone on Medicare, it will have an even
greater impact on people covered under both Medicare and Medicaid,
since they will now have to get their prescriptions through Medicare
instead of Medicaid.
This will be the first of several columns on the Medicare Part D
program. This column will deal with the assi stan ce available for
people with low incomes; this is being published first because letters
to potentially eligible persons are currently being mailed and
applications are currently being accepted for the assi stan ce
programs.
Future columns will deal with the benefits of the plan for those not
eligible for additional financial assi stan ce, and on how to choose
the best prescription plan for you.
If you have Medicare and:
Nothing else, you should start watching for information on the various
plans from which you will be able to choose coverage. Stay connected
to learn more about the plans as information is released, in this
column, in senior publications such as AARP, at the Social Security
(ssa.gov) and Medicare (medicare.gov) websites, etc.
Medigap (supplemental Medicare) coverage with drug coverage, expect to
receive notice that the drug portion of your Medigap plan will be
ending 01-01-06 .
Medicaid, you should have gotten or will soon get important
information about the additional benefits Part D will provide to low
income beneficiaries. Medicaid drug coverage ends 01-01-06 for persons
covered under both Medicaid and Medicare.
Are Low Income, additional benefits are provided to assist with
covering your portion of the charges and the premium. Some details are
below and more will be published as they become available.
Overview of Medicare Part D
Private insurance companies and other prescription delivery systems
have the ability to offer their own versions of Part D Medicare.
Everyone eligible for Part D will have at least two plans to choose
from, more in many metropolitan areas. It will be up to you, with some
assistance from Medicare and many non-profit organizations, to decide
which plan is best for you. Once enrolled, you will only be able to
change drug plans once a year.
The premium for the basic coverage is anticipated to average $32.20
per month, although it will be higher for some plans with broader
coverage.
The most important item to compare is the formulary that the plan
uses. Plans do not have to cover all prescription drugs although they
must cover virtually all drugs in six classes of drugs: anti-
retroviral, antidepressants, anti-psychotics, anticonvulsants,
anticancer agents, and immunosuppressants.
However, not all medications have to be on all formularies, although
each plan must cover at least two medications in each therapeutic
class of drugs. A preliminary review of the proposed plans being
submitted appears to indicate that the various plan administrators are
going to list many more medications in their formulary than the
required minimum. This is good, because you can only change drug plans
once a year, while the drug plans may revise their formulary more
frequently. More on picking the right prescription plan will be
written in future columns as the date for enrollment gets closer and
the various actual plans are introduced.
The Medicare Modernization Act included a basic design for a plan of
benefits; however, it also permits Part D providers to vary from that
basic plan as long as the benefits available are "actuarially"
equivalent to the basic plan in the law, meaning that the benefits
paid by the provider will generally be equal to what would be paid
under the basic plan. It is doubtful that many providers will offer
the basic plan which will be discussed more thoroughly in a future
column.
No Supplemental Drug Coverage. For persons not eligible for the low
income benefits, the law precludes sales of any supplemental drug
coverage that would fill those gaps. Even the Medigap policies with
drug coverage will be dropped. Persons covered under their prior
employer's health plan or by individual health coverage will still be
able to utilize those benefits; however, it is anticipated that those
plans will reduce or drop their drug coverage as time passes. Only the
assi stan ce provided to low income beneficiaries, below, can
supplement Part D coverage.
Additional Benefits for Low Income Beneficiaries
Recognizing that the coverage under Medicare - Part D plans will still
be a financial hardship on persons with low incomes, additional
benefits are provided based on a person's income compared to the
Federal Poverty Level and whether or not the person is on Medicaid.
If you have Medicare AND Full Medicaid Coverage
100% Federal Poverty Level* Plan
Then Your
And Your
Income Is And Your
Assets Are Monthly Premium &
Annual Deductable And Your
Copay** Is
Below
100% FPL Below Medicaid Limits *** $0 $1/generic &
$3/brand name
Above
100% FPL Below Medicaid Limits *** $0 $2/generic &
$5/brand name
*100% 2005 Federal Poverty Level: $ 9,570/year for an individual
$12,830/year for a couple
**No copayment after $5,100 in total annual drug costs.
***$2,000 ($3,000 for a couple) not counting one residence and one
vehicle.
If you have Medicare AND NOT Full Medicaid
135% Federal Poverty Level* Plan
Then Your
And Your
Income Is And Your
Assets Are Monthly Premium &
Annual Deductable And Your
Copay** Is
Below
135% FPL Below
$7 500 ($12 000 Couples) $0 $2/generic &
$5/brand name
*135% 2005 Federal Poverty Level: $12,920/year for an individual
$17,321/year for a couple
**No copayment after $5,100 in total annual drug costs.
150% Federal Poverty Level* Plan
Then Your
And Your
Income Is And Your
Assets Are Monthly Premium &
Annual Deductable And Your
Copayt** Is
Below
150% FPL But Above 1135% FPL Below
$11 500 ($23 000 Couples) Sliding Scale Monthly Premium & $50/yr
Deductible 15% Coinsurance
*150% 2005 Federal Poverty Level: $14,246/year for an individual
$23,000/year for a couple
**After $5,100 in total annual drug costs copay is $2/generic and
$5/brand name.
Anyone who believes they may qualify for one of the low income assi
stan ce plans should make application for it now. Social Security is
accepting applications for the low income plans, even though
enrollment in Part D itself won't start until November 15, 2005 .
If you did not receive an application in the mail, you may obtain one
by calling Social Security at 800-772-1213 or you may complete an on-
line application at www.socialsecurity.gov. Click on "New Medicare
Prescription Drug Plan."
Confused about applying for disability? Click here
[Jacques Chambers, CLU, and his company, Chambers Benefits Consulting,
have over 35 years of experience in health, life and disability
insurance and Social Security disability benefits. For the past twelve
years, he has been assisting people with their rights, problems, and
other issues concerning benefits and disability. He can be reached at
jacques@... or through his website at:
http://www.helpwithbenefits.com.]
Copyright, (August, 2005) Hepatitis C Support Project / HCV Advocate
www.hcvadvocate.org. All Rights Reserved. Reprint is granted and
encouraged with credit to the Hepatitis C Support Project

Lol Mine has it's own bathtub! Although sometimes it's a taxi, a cooler and a
clothes closet. I ride with a sidecar! :-) And I love it! Glo

both of you. Nancy, Amanda and I have been talking about making the trip to
oakie for the wedding. Just let us know cause we plan on being there if at all
possible. I might even bring the bike. Hey you two didn't go to this clinic did
you? Glo

Well, here we go again:
[QUOTE]: You will receive another letter about how you will receive
the extra help if any of the above situations apply to you. [END
QUOTE]
Those situations are marked with an 'X' below. I never received a
letter regarding this either, and I understand that different States
handle this differently. I believe that Washington State does pay
Medicare premiums although these premiums are deducted from my SSDI
benefit. I am confused and no doubt I have to chase down an answer
from the State of Washington.
Here is part of what the application elligibility page states:
Do NOT complete this application because you automatically will get
the extra help if:
[X]You receive Supplemental Security Income (SSI) payments and have
Medicare;
[X] You receive Medicaid and have Medicare; or
[X] Your state pays your Medicare premiums.
You will receive another letter about how you will receive the extra
help if any of the above situations apply to you.
How Can You Get The Extra Help?
To get extra help with prescription drug costs, you must complete and
submit this application. We will review your application and send you
a letter to let you know if you qualify for extra help. We also will
send you information about the Medicare Prescription Drug Program and
tell you what you should do next.

Dear Pam I will let everyone know Friday of next week I think it will be though
Ive always been lucky...Michael

Nancy,
Okay, you are forgiven since we seem to be going through way too much! Glad you
are back and hope it gets better for you. I am very Unreliable myself, and yes,
I cracked under pressure. Thought for sure they were going to lock me up or I
was going to explode. But I just got a nice ulcer instead!! LOL And this too
shall pass. Very happy to hear about Michael and hope it goes well for him.
Dana
P.S. Okay, maybe someone more rational can take over this whole thing. I just
wanna have fun!! Tehee
Nancy wrote:Call me Irresponsible...Yes I'm Unreliable...Yes it's Undeniably
TRUE! LOL
Dana Honey...I just got done doing a very similar stint of weighty
responsibilities...and, I cracked under the pressure. I'm not even
responsible for myself anymore :-)
Sorry...maybe somebody else can take up the flag then...any volunteers? :-)
Love,
Nancy

Glad you showed up Nancy, was starting to worry about that head of yours. Now,
Are you going to give us all lessons when we all have our Harleys and are ready
for this tour we are going on??? And I reallly don't know about the drag gear
thing, But I am sure you will explain. LOL Dana
Nancy wrote:I am Dale Earnhart in Drag Dear....LOL!

Debbie,
I think the most of us have fatigue and don't feel like cooking, cleaning on and
on or just don't have the energy. My habits started way back. I was married to
a man that demanded home cooked warm meals on the table when he wanted them and
did that for years. He did take total control of my life without probably
either one of us knowing it. I went through years of therapy (Tehee! of wich we
can see I still need!) just to figure out who I was and what I was capable of.
It took many years to figure this one out, but it was not until my daughter (of
wich I love so very much and would fight the world for) was diagnosed with
BiPolar, that he realized that he was BiPolar. Did not even know there was such
a thing! But I had to forgive allot of things that just really hurt me back
then. And accepted that it was a part of an illness that neither one of us knew
he had or knew anything about. And most of all I have to Thank My Goddess!
tehee! My Ex-Wife-in-Law if you can believe that, for finally getting him into
therapy and learning what was going on. Without forgiveness, acceptance and
understanding, it would of been very difficult to help my daughter. She would
of winded up in Juvinile detention or even worse if I had not invested so much
of myself in believing and fighting for her to be okay. Even sueing the School
District. So things just are not always as they seem.
But then again, you are right. I don't do one way streets, nor do I have
friends or relationships with people who look at me as if I were an
Alian!!!!!!!!! LOL Dana
WaitingOnPeg@... wrote:He is begging to stay with me the problem that i
have is that he wants me to
cook all his meals and send a weeks worth home with him ( which i did for 2
months) and then he doesnt have to make the 30 minute drive which he still
bitches about. So I am cooking for a man i never see and is afraid of being
with me because of the hepC. We have had relations 1 time since i found out
in april. It was protected and a few days later he caught a cold and was all
nervous he had caught it. Then i get to hear him bitching about my kids and
animals. It was me that broke up with him. I cant handle the stress. I
cook now when i feel like cooking. If i am having a bad day my kids are
overjoyed to have fast food. Life is simpler and that is what i need right
now.
Debbie
In a message dated 8/31/2002 8:57:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
spiria_spirit@... writes:

I give up. I could not find any information on prescription
asistance provision through the State of Washington. FURTHERMORE, I
used the SSA website search system to try to find a Part D drug plan
that just might include hepatitis-c and/or treatment medicines for
hep-c so I could possibly change from the plan that they
automatically assigned to me back in January which has no provisions
for hep-c and no treatment medicines for hep-c listed in their
formulary. After 20 minutes on the SSA search site I could not get
any information on plans, the site just put me in a continuous loop
taking me back to the first page over and over again. This is what I
have come to expect from the government, so this is just the normal
bureaucratic SNAFU.
I have very important things to do right now and have to leave town
for a few days. All I can say is, "I tried to figure this out but I
couldn't".
Oh, by the way, I had asked Dr, and my pharmacist at Rite-Aid about
this whole mess and neither of them could figure it out. She (the
Pharmacist) didn't understand it. Neither did the other pharmacist
there who couldn't even get my coverage to work in the computer
system a couple of weeks ago. Anyhow the woman pharmacist suggested
that I try talking with the Pharmacist at Walmart.
Yeah, WALMART is the place to go to get this all figured out. It is
as good a place as any because no one else seems to know what is
going on.
On Monday I will try again to get through to the Social Security
Administration and the State of Washington (if I remember to do
that) OItherwise I think I'll forget it and work on music.
Dennis near Seattle

Dennis I know just how you felt with filing for SSDI, I can only imagine what it
was like to do this while under the influence of TX, heck I can barely figure it
out how to answer some of these stupid questions while not on tx, what
ridiculous, make no sense type of questions they ask you, it is one of the
dumbest questionnaires, the most senseless things I have had to fill out, I even
asked my case worker who the genius was who thought up such mindless things, she
actually laughed and said she felt that some of the questions were ...lets say
silly, at least this woman had a good sense of humor about it.
Love, Light, and Blessings
Eric

I finally got the SSA part D medical plan search function to work. I
keyed in Pegasys and Ribavirin treatment for one year just to find a
plan that covers hep-c treatment meds. I speculate that if they
cover Pegasys and Ribavirin, they may also cover other drugs for hep-
c in the future when they become approved.
Check this one out, LOL:
UA Medicare Part D Prescription Drug Cov (Company: United American
Insurance Company, Contract ID: S5755, Plan ID: 033)
Approved by Medicare
Annual Deductible: $0.00
Monthly Premium: $32.80
Monthly Share of Cost (Co-pay) $6,759.85
(note: The Monthly Cost Share is the amount you will pay for drugs
after you've met any applicable deductible, but before you reach any
coverage limits) Copayment, in other words.
Estimated Annual Cost (annual copay): $82,991.00
What a deal!
I am sure that a number of hep-c patients who are low income,
formerly receiving medicade assistance and did not select a specific
plan had this plan selected for them. Imagine their surprize when
they decide to start treatment, thinking they have insurance coverage
and see the copay of $6,759.85 per month.
The plan that I was assigned to, Prescription Pathway, does not offer
any coverage at all for hep-c treatment meds. I wonder if that was
intentional. HOWEVER, I can purchase, at additional cost, additional
monthly premiums from them, the ' Prescription Pathway Platinum Plan'
(Yes, of course this must be the super duper cost saving platinum
card holder plan).
The monthly premium is only $34. From my recollection the first
month of treatment would cost over $1,600.00 copayment, then the next
5 or 6 weeks about $3,200.00 and thereafter over $340. a month with a
year total copay of well over $7,000.00.
This one here: Prescription Pathway Platinum Plan Reg 30 (Company:
Marquette National Life Insurance Company, Contract ID: S5581, Plan
ID: 068)
Approved by Medicare
411 N Baylen Street
Pensacola, FL 32501
Phone: (800) 845-255

He is begging to stay with me the problem that i have is that he wants me to
cook all his meals and send a weeks worth home with him ( which i did for 2
months) and then he doesnt have to make the 30 minute drive which he still
bitches about. So I am cooking for a man i never see and is afraid of being
with me because of the hepC. We have had relations 1 time since i found out
in april. It was protected and a few days later he caught a cold and was all
nervous he had caught it. Then i get to hear him bitching about my kids and
animals. It was me that broke up with him. I cant handle the stress. I
cook now when i feel like cooking. If i am having a bad day my kids are
overjoyed to have fast food. Life is simpler and that is what i need right
now.
Debbie
In a message dated 8/31/2002 8:57:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
spiria_spirit@... writes:

Now Debbie,
What are you waiting on? Go right down there and get them involved. Think we
are going to need all the Harleys we can get. Oh, and ask them if they give
lessons to fuzzie brained Heppers! Think I might need a few! Tehee Dana
WaitingOnPeg@... wrote:There is a harley dealership down the road. I am
sure they would love the
publicity of this wonderful event.
Debbie
In a message dated 8/31/2002 7:17:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
spiria_spirit@... writes:

Wow Debbie,
That is an offer that is hard to refuse! Now why can't I meet a man like that?
Tehee! Michigan, hmmmmmm, I am way up here in the Pocono's (PA). I really
should get out and around more often. Your boyfriend is silly if he gets
treatment like that. He should be begging to come back!! Tehee. Maybe when I
win that Harley I can take a tour all over and see all the Happy Heppers I have
met in here. How many home cooked meals do you think I could get? I do need to
try to keep that weight on ya know. They just don't like to keep me on
treatment being so thin. I get down to 97 lbs and start have all kinds of
problems and they take me off! Dana "Queen of Denial" What a
title!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WaitingOnPeg@... wrote:Well, Miss Queen of Denial,
It is Saturday the weekends are very good for getting a meal. For those who
indulge in meat we will be serving New York strips, baked potato with sour
cream, and corn on the cob. If you go the vegetarian route I will be serving
a spinach tofu quiche, corn on the cob with fresh tomatoes. For desert a
dark chocolate and white chocolate pie without all the sin because I have
found tat if you use sugar free pudding with soy milk it is rich and creamy
and oh so sinful without being hard on the liver. We are located in Novi,
Michigan a suburb of Detroit. If you let me know ahead of time I will be
sure to roll out the red carpet for royalty.
Love,
Debbie
In a message dated 8/31/2002 7:13:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
spiria_spirit@... writes:

Well, Miss Queen of Denial,
It is Saturday the weekends are very good for getting a meal. For those who
indulge in meat we will be serving New York strips, baked potato with sour
cream, and corn on the cob. If you go the vegetarian route I will be serving
a spinach tofu quiche, corn on the cob with fresh tomatoes. For desert a
dark chocolate and white chocolate pie without all the sin because I have
found tat if you use sugar free pudding with soy milk it is rich and creamy
and oh so sinful without being hard on the liver. We are located in Novi,
Michigan a suburb of Detroit. If you let me know ahead of time I will be
sure to roll out the red carpet for royalty.
Love,
Debbie
In a message dated 8/31/2002 7:13:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
spiria_spirit@... writes:

Thanks Glo,
Nice to meet you too. I saw Alice Cooper when he
became sober! Tehee! Those Hippie Days and all the
Concerts. Don't ever want to go back to those days
though. Just "TRY TO REMEMBER??", the good times. I
have been converted to non-drinking and drug free for
20? years and then found out I had HepC. Life
sometimes is so strange. Hope Nancy is OK. She is a
trip. I am more reserved in person myself till I get
to know someone. But age, I have to admit, has gotten
to me and I have gotten more carefre